Hosts:

• Michael Day, the Host for C&W 99  and
• Nick Carbone, Kairos Editor and Longtime Computers and Writing Conference Attendee

• Anthony Rue C&W '98
• Judi Kirkpatrick C&W '97
• Eric Crump C&W '94

                     A large room with distant light walls and lots of hazy, but too bright, light. There
                     are several large pillows on the floor, and in the front of the room there is a small
                     platform stage with a group of comfortable chairs. Type 'up' to step up on the
                     platform stage.

mday welcomes y'all too

Jennifer shows slide #2.
 

This discussion will be logged and archived.  ***Please state your name and your affiliation***.  Want to be a part of future Kairos discussions? Join our mailing list KMTA. To join you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message:  subscribe kmta  ______________________________________      The log of Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 will be published in the forthcoming  Kairos 3.2 (later this Fall)

 
 

mday is Michael Day, South Dakota Tech   JamesI is James Inman from the University of Michigan   true is true, IBM corporate dupe   judi is Judi Kirkpatrick, Kapi'olani Community College.   GregS is Greg Siering, Ball State University and Kairos.   Eric is eric crump, ncte   Jennifer is Jennifer Bowie of Rensselaer Poly Tech and Kairos Response Editor   nickc is Nick Carbone, Umas-- er, Marlboro-- er, Colorado State U.   Dene says, "Dene is Dene Grigar from Texas Woman's"   Annie says, "Annie is Annie Olson from Texas Woman's U."

Who's Who

 
 

Keynote speakers:  A conference wrap-up speaker, Possible speakers, and Scheduling

Eric says, "I dunno. 2 keynoters might be enough. We got the town halls for plenaries, too, right? And keynotes cost a lotta $$"   Dene says, "since John, Becky and I wrote the webtext for the coming Kairos about the last CWC, should we put a link to this log from our pages?"   mday says, "well, nothing definite on RU yet"   nickc nods Eric re keynote cost   Eric says, "It's not out of the question to get someone from within the community to do it. We've had cindy selfe & michael joyce do keynote duties in recent years"   mday would bet that's a good idea, Dene   Dene says, "judi had two top keynotes too"   Jennifer [to Dene]: If you want to put the link please do.   Dene says, "Good Mikie, James Inman is here, and so is Greg. Are you guys hearing this? Can we do this now?"   Dene smiles at the Kairos guys   mday has thought of that, Eric. Fred does a kick-ass keynote that might be good.   JamesI says, "works for me, but Greg's the boss--Greg?"   JamesI grins at GregS   nickc [to mday]: You know what might be nice, is to get someone to do a post conference keynote that focuses on looking back over the conference as a whole, a good synthesizer and story teller maybe.   Dene says, "I like that!!!"   true nods   JamesI nods to Dene   mday says, "After the conference? Would this be online then?"   GregS nods   Dene says, "very cool, that is what our webtext tried to do hypretextually but I think a linear presentation during the conference would be good"   nickc [to mday]: Could be, but I was thinking of maybe a last night speaker.  Dene says, "Could we add him to Becky's thing?"   GregS [to JamesI]: Greg is the multitasking boss. :-)   nickc [to mday,]: course, that could be simulcast over web too   JamesI grins at GregS   mday says, "Well, the last night is really Sunday lunch"   Eric says, "fred would be great"   Dene says, "Then how about putting final touches to a town meeting?"   nickc [to mday]: lunch is good   mday says, "Sat night I think is the outing"   Dene says, "could Fred cap the town meeting on Sunday if it is scheduled at that time?"   mday thinks he could/would, "We'd need to ask him, though."   Dene nods at Mikie   mday says, "does it sound better to have Fred recap, or open? Maybe Misty Brave should open"   Dene nods at Mikie again   mday says, "Deal with the topic of Trad and Tech"   nickc sees Fred as recap, let M. Brave open to set tone   Dene says, "Recap?"   JamesI agrees with everyone   mday: "sounds good"   judi says, "Is there going to be one more in the middle somewhere?"   mday thinks there could be   mday says, "If RU can come"   nickc thinks Fred can spin the discussion out beyond town meeting/recap onto lists because he's good at being thoughtfully provocative   mday says, "Misty would be Thu, RU Fri, Fred Sun"   mday says, "If I can work it"   Dene says, "sounds great!"   Eric says, "and saturday we listen to the wind"   mday can almost guarantee wind   nickc listens in black and white, can't stand colors of the wind   mday can remind you that it could also snow up there

 
 
 

judi says, "ok--who's RU?"   JamesI woos mday--no snow! (:   Dene wonders with Judi who RU is   mday says, "Author and pundit, very crazy. Mondo 2000, Wired, etc."   true says, "RU serious?"   Dene nods   Dene says, "This sounds promising:)"   mday says, "Has an interesting new project on political action on the net"   nickc [to true]: Yahoo Serious's cyber brother?   mday says, "could inject some fun AND a sense of political possibility into what we do"   mday says, "His uncle lives here and is a good friend"   Dene says, "Irreverence is always good"   mday says, "So we have a connection"   Dene says, "The cyberpunk author I have been talking to is Pat Cadigan"   Dene says, "she may be coming to TWU for a series of talks to my classes"   mday says, "What could Pat offer us?"   nickc [to mday]: Political possibility is the next step, because as a group we ain't no good at it (thinking of copyright extension/privacy rollovers in  clinton admin.), nor do we know how to talk about access without hands going up in the air, also a political actionable issue.   mday absolutelies Nick   Dene says, "Pat could talk about the real and the imagined worlds of cyberspace, for one thing"   JamesI writes a mean letter to his Congressman   JamesI grins   nickc has macro for mean congress letters   Dene says, "political action would be a good idea, guys"   mday says, "We could think about Pat if one of the others can't?"   nickc presses Alt-F-U on keyboard and up comes choice of templates      JamesI nods to nickc--laughs at Alt-F-U   mday bets he knows what F-U stands for

RU, cyberspace, and Politics

 
 

To Banquet or not to Banquet?                                                 Communal Breaking  of Bread--Forced Intermingling through food                                                                                                               When to Do What?

mday says, "there was a lot of concern, from a very FEW people about the banquets"   mday is not sure that this vocal abhorrence for banquets from a couple of people is worth listening to. Whatcha think?   true [to mday]: yes? I can't imagine...   nickc [to mday]: banquets aren't easy to do well   mday says, "Mainly one person"   Jennifer says, "Doesn't seem like one person would be enough."   nickc [to mday]: Barbara used to plan banquets and catering for restaurant; I can ask her for ideas.   mday says, "Well, do you prefer the stand-up heavy hors d'oevres? I like those."   mday says, "with tables at which you sit down, of course."   nickc [to mday]: you can do station h'ors d'ouevres, where food is placed around the room, which encourages mingling.   Dene says, "Judi's conference had terrific food, what does she say????"   Eric says, "I like those too, mday. It's good to give everybody a chance to get together, but I'm not a big banquet fan, either. Maybe have one and call it good?"   JamesI nods to Eric   Dene says, "How about catered from outside?"   Jennifer nods to Eric   nickc [to mday]: kind of like a cocktail part   mday likes that idea. Banquet Friday, and that's it? Picnic setup on Sunday?   true notes that there are no good restaurants in gainesville, let alone caterers.   Dene says, "I think as much as people hate banquet food they like to dine together. . ."   Dene says, "the notion of community and breaking bread together."   mday says, "catered from outside can be difficult, as HoJo's is our hotel, and you can't bring in someone to cater, and SDSM&T is our school, and you can't bring someone in there either. We would have to go elsewhere."   Jennifer nods to Dene   mday says, "We can plead with both sources about Menu, however"   Dene says, "Well that would take the pressure off you"   mday says, "Thursday night, we can call the shots. We have the Journey Museum reserved."   true [to mday]: get one of the publishers to underwrite the banquet and have it catered someplace cool.   Dene nods   Dene says, "Really, I think people like eating together."   mday says, "How do you get a publisher to do that?"   true says, "beg"   Dene says, "like, sit down eating and smoozing"   Dene says, "let's ask Allyn and Bacon"   mday says, "What would be the title of the person who would do that?"   JamesI . o O (fastest bid from a publisher wins)   Dene says, "Doug Day may be interested"   mday says, "Yeah, my bro, Doug Day"   Dene laughs   nickc [to mday]: Thursday then, keep to a simple menu, half veggie/half carnivore, and keep bar simple too, just one red, one white, champagne and a few beers and soft drinks, small tables, a few chairs so that people can mingle and move, and then go into separate room for talk if there's going to be one.   Dene says, "Mikie, do you have a local AAHE branch?"   mday says, "and he can bring up the Austin Lounge Lizards to entertain us."   mday does not think so.   Dene says, "They do these kinds of things"   Dene says, "How about teacher?"   mday says, "We have to buy the alcohol ourselves, so the suggestions are duly noted, Nick. That's about what I thought"   Dene says, "how about teacher organization"   mday says, "The SDCTE, but they are dirt poor"   nickc [to mday]: a cash bar wouldn't be a bad thing, and keeping it simple makes your job (and cater's) easier   mday says, "right. Ain't gonna be nor full bar"   Dene says, "okay, so when do you want the wine tasting. . ."   mday says, "Friday, I was thinking of HoJo's. They have a nice banquet hall, and I could work with them on the menu"   Dene says, "and when will you play the piano for us, Mikie?"   nickc [to mday]: how are you budgeting for this? Is the thursday gig part of conference registration and friday extra?   mday says, "Wine tasting could be Friday pre-banquet?"   mday says, "And the talent show Sat after we get back from the Hills?"   mday has no concept of budget.   Dene says, "How about *after* people get some food in their stomachs?"   Dene laughs    JamesI grins at Dene   Dene says, "could be real ugly otherwise"   nickc [to Dene]: during dinner would be best   mday says, "Everything would be included except the Sat trip"   Dene grins back at James   mday says, "OK, Dene, how about AFTER the dinner Friday?"   Dene says, "Sounds good. I'll come up with the wines and the price"   mday is hoping to make it on a $150 reg, with say $25 for the Sat trip, and a price dene could set for the wine tasting   Dene says, "do you have a wine shop there, or will I have to carry the wine in from Texas?"   mday says, "all would be on the reg form. "   Dene nods

 
 

mday says, "Is there any reason to make the food events optional? A vocal minority asked for that?"    nickc [to mday]: any sense of what you need to cover costs such as room rentals, equipment and such from your school and hotel?    true says, "cost"    mday says, "I think that breeds non-togetherness"    nickc [to mday]: you can make it optional if there's no speaker at the dinner    Dene agrees with Mikie    mday says, "but I think there is a speaker, or at least I am hoping for RU then"    mday says, "and of course, my drum and bugle corps will open the banquet"    mday giggles    Dene says, "piano!!!"    nickc says, "if there's a speaker, then why would they want to miss? "    mday says, "A few are just extremely picky about food."    true says, "no way around it--the banquet is one of the largest budget items."    true says, "if you make it optional, I can't imagine that it will happen..."    mday thinks, then, that we have ONE banquet    JamesI nods to true    Eric says, "mday might have to hire a stand-in for piano. If I remember rightly, the chairperson is a tad preoccupied for the duration of the event"    judi says, "That's why we used buffets."    nickc thinks one would be enough then there's flexibility for other nights     Eric says, "Maybe you can get George Winston? :)"    mday nods Eric. It will be difficult to sit down    judi says, "michael day is George Winston."    true says, "If only because of the way registration works--you'll need to plan your banquet well before the conference, yet you'll be stunned with how many people register late. Really late."    nickc nods Judi and that worked pretty well    mday blushes    mday says, "yes. And I think I have to hold the line. You register, you pay for banquet. End of story. "    judi says, "Good food in buffet settings solves the vegetarian # need."    mday says, "However, I will do my best to make the menu interesting, with a prominent Veg entree."    nickc [to mday,]: But, you can set a banquet date and menu, then tell kitchen week or two before final count; if the place isn't flexible enough to deal with that, they shouldn't be in business.    Dene says, "John would appreciate that, the veg. that he is"    judi says, "Our costs were $30/person/meal."    true nods for the buffet idea    mday wonders if HoJos will let me buffet. I'll bet they would. It means lines, but lines can be fun.    Dene says, "Buffets are good, if you have several lines like Judi did."    true says, "but I don't think you be able to match the selection of seafood that Judi was able to put together..."    Dene nods    mday says, "No, and all we have that's out of this world is meat.... Sigh"    judi says, "I was just giving mikey a ballpark $ figure"    mday says, "thanks Judi!"    nickc [to mday]: the alternative to lines is waiting at table for staff to make it to your end of hall. It's rare that service is smooth enough to serve everyone in timely manner. At least lines allow kibitzing.    mday nods. I think I will go with buffet if y'all agree.    judi says, "And mikey--even though you get a count, sorta like the airlines, you underbook by a certain #."    judi says, "And even then, you don't fill the tables and end up paying."    mday says, "Like how many?"    judi says, "but in Hawaii, people went off to do other things."    mday says, "how many under?"    judi grins.    nickc [to mday]: Well, you could ask Judi to pick up some fish before she flies in. Maybe they'll have another leak in the tank at the hotel and she can get some cheap.    mday says, "Yeah, you gotta remember that we don't have that big blue attraction right across the street."    judi says, "i think we did 270 1st night and 250 2nd night though we had about 340 paid"    mday says, "My my... I don't think we'd lost that many, would we?"    nickc thinks hotel must've liked those numbers.    mday says, "er, lose"    true says, "I don't have the numbers, but we didn't have that many no-shows"    Dene says, "may be not in Rapid City"    Dene says, "I wonder how the Utah conference panned out"    true [to Dene]: Unless there's a rodeo in town.    Dene says, "I imagine some comparison would be valid."    mday has a budget for that one, I think.    Dene nods to True    nickc [to mday]: but if you talk to hotel now, they should have a range of menus at a range of prices, which would help you budget and figure registration costs better.

A little entertainment with the food?                                    Planning for late registers                                   Special Choices- Vegetarian                                    Musical Selections- George Winston?

 

The Expense of Conferences

nickc says, "What may drive costs up is that it's on a holiday weekend."   mday will do that. Ahh, if there were time....   mday says, "Well, they are not raising the room price, nor food, they said. They were glad for a convention that will fill the hotel"   Eric has to dash   Eric waves   nickc [to mday]: call them and tell them what you have in mind, ask them to send you menus and prices for sit down banquets, buffets, and bar costs and so on. You can look it over, then get in touch with Judi and True and Eric and others about comparisons and so on.   Eric tiptoes out.   Eric goes home.   mday waves eric   Dene says, " I am glad to hear this after the prices for the NCTE"   judi hopes HOJOs still makes their chocolate brownies 'cause she hasn't had one since the 60's.   Dene laughs at Judi   true [to Dene]: What was up with the NCTE?   mday says, "Will do."   mday says, "yeah what happened with NCTE?"   JamesI should probably dash too, waves to everyone--take care!   Dene says, "$140 a night at the conference hotel"   JamesI has disconnected.   Annie says, "yikes!"   true says, "Yikes!"   mday waves JamesI   nickc reels at NCTE price   Dene says, "I wrote a dirty note to the organizers"   Dene says, "All the cheap hotels booked out in the first 2 weeks"   nickc is glad it's in Denver next year, might actually go    udi says, "We're at 160+tax."   Dene says, "Can you believe this? We are talking schoolteachers, for god's sake"   true says, "yeah, but opryland is kooool."   Dene shakes her head   Dene says, "It better be"   mday says, "and be sure to tell folks to sub to CW99"   Dene laughs      Jennifer shows slide #10

 
 
 

The hour had come and gone.  Thank you for joining  Kairos Roundtable C&W '98  The recorder is about to be turned off.  If you are interested in joining the KMTA mailing list to further discuss this  or other issues, you can send mail to with the  following command in the body of your  email message:  subscribe kmta  _______________________________________________________________________  The log of Kairos Roundtable C&W '98 will be published in Kairos 3.2  _______________________________________________________________________  Hope you join us again for other Kairos MOO sessions such as our KMTA series!

 
 
 

Dene says, "thank you Mikie for sharing this planning with us"   mday hopes Opryland is cool! Don't forget to hang at the ACE booth!   Dene curtsies to Mday   mday bows.   nickc waves g'night   mday says, "thank you all for coming. Great suggestions!"   Dene says, "I'll be there"   mday says, "You are a big help"   judi says, "Aloha a hui hou, everyone. "   Dene grabs Annie   GregS waves all.   Dene says, "let's go to TWUMOO!"   Annie says, "thanks for letting me lurk. Good to meet all of you."   judi says, "See you soon, NCTE regulars."   mday waves to all leaving   Dene waves at Mday   nickc has disconnected.   The housekeeper arrives to remove nickc.   judi has disconnected.   Dene says, "Bye"   mday says, "Nice to meet you too, Annie"   Annie has disconnected.   Dene hugs Judi   Dene has disconnected.

Saying Goodbye